'I’ve heard everything now' - Reform councillor's disbelief over interview support for minority groups

A Reform councillor said she “has heard everything now” after being told about a scheme to encourage minority groups to work for the fire service.

Keighley West councillor Dawn Thewlis also questioned “what would the taxpayers think?” at the meeting of West Yorkshire Fire Authority on Friday.

During a meeting of the authority’s people and culture committee Coun Thewlis and fellow Reform councillor David Dresser criticised the authority’s work to support “underrepresented communities” to apply for jobs in the service.

This includes a scheme to help minority groups prepare for interviews for fire service jobs.

A report to the committee said 10 per cent of the service’s workforce were female, while seven per cent of the workforce were from ethnic minorities.

Despite these relatively low numbers, they have actually risen in recent years, up from just four per cent in both categories in 2017/18.

A report to members said: “These improvements have been achieved alongside targeted positive action, community engagement and recruitment outreach designed to showcase WYFRS as an employer and reduce barriers to entry to fire service careers.”

Referring to the “Ethnic Minority Candidates Interview Skills” programme, the report says: “Data shows minority ethnic candidates tend to disproportionately struggle at interview. Workshops developed by the Inclusion team support candidates with interview techniques.”

While the committee were discussing the item, Coun Dresser said: “Everyone wants to see other groups that are not representing in the workforce.

“But personally what I’m hearing on the grapevine is that there is a policy of discrimination going on in recruitment.

“I agree underrepresented groups should be encouraged, but is positive discrimination going on?”

Sonia Pawson, director of HR at the service, said: “Absolutely not. We recruit on the basis of merit. We have legal and statutory duties under the equalities act.

“What we do offer is legal, targeted support to underrepresented groups, that is to get them to the point of making a job application. It is just to provide a level playing field.”

Coun Dresser said: “That’s what I’m hearing on the grapevine from ex services members.”

Asked if he had any evidence, he said he did not, adding: “I’ve heard it from ex firefighters I know. That is something that is out there.”

Chair of the committee Councillor Karen Bruce said: “It is difficult for us to go on hearsay.”

Coun Dresser replied: “That doesn’t mean it can’t happen.”

Station Manager Steve Briddon, who served in Afghanistan before becoming a firefighter, replied to say he was “really proud” of the work the service does to reach out to ex-service members.

Last year the service was awarded a gold rating by the Defence Employer Recognition Scheme, which is given to organisations who “support the Armed Forces community through a range of commitments, including employing veterans and their families and supporting reservists.”

Coun Thewlis said: “You work with potential applicants from groups that are underrepresented?”

Mrs Pawson said the scheme was only to help people prepare for interview, and did not lower hiring standards. She said: “We understand that people come from a whole host of different backgrounds. Some members of our communities don’t have the same opportunities that other members of our communities have.

“It is about helping people realise their potential.

“Standards are never lowered – we have a very high bar.

“Appointments are made on the basis of merit. We just support people to help them meet their potential.”

Coun Thewlis said: “I can’t believe you get people ready to be interviewed. Any adult knows how to do it. It is their prerogative.”

Coun Bruce pointed out there are many similar services people from all walks of life can access to help them prepare for interviews or job applications.

Still in apparent disbelief about the policy, Coun Thewlis said: “I’ve heard everything now.”

Mrs Pawson said: “We’re not coaching someone to pass, we’re just creating a level playing field for disadvantaged groups.”

Coun Thewlis said: “What would the taxpayer think of this?”

Coun Dresser added: “I keep getting quoted all this stuff, but no one has quoted case law to back up what you’re saying.”

Mrs Pawson replied: “Section 158 and section 159 of the Equalities Act. I’m happy to go through it with you in more detail after the meeting.”

Councillor Khalid Patel of the West Yorkshire Group is a former employee of the service, and said: “I’ve served 20 plus years here. I started in 2003, and I’ve seen how the service has done a fantastic recruitment process. You’re out in the community trying to address people of all communities and trying to get them to represent the service.”